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Sanctifier
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 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| sarge on MLR wrote: | | What is the flow of a gt3076R ? |
This is the latest info that I've found on FP's HTA version of the "Garett 3076" so far...
| Sanctifier (nixtt) on MLR wrote: | | FP HTA 3076......... 57 lb./min. |
...and this...
| Nippon Power wrote: | Garrett GT3076R Turbo is a highly responsive GT series T3 frame turbocharger.
Ideal for lightly built motors looking to get excellent power with exceptional spool.
Compressor Specifications:
-56 trim GT37 series compressor wheel with a max flow rate of 53 lb/min
-0.60 AR ported shroud compressor housing
Turbine Specifications:
-84 trim GT series turbine wheel
-0.63 or 0.82 A/R
-Steel ball bearing center section |
Link--> Garrett GT3076R Specs.
Looks like FP's specs of 57 lb./min. are about right for their "HTA 3076" version.
It seems that FP's is a bit better than "normal" GT3076R's too.
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luvnish
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Update:
Still looking at the Precision turbo's.
I previously mentioned the 5857, and there is also a 6057. The first two digits refer to the size of the Compressor, and the second two digits are the turbine wheel.
The 5857 is a 6 blade compressor wheel, which is said to be more efficient at high boost levels (30+psi), this turbo is rated at 60 lbs./min.
The 6057 is a 7 blade compressor wheel with the same turbine as the 5857. This design is said to have a broader powerband at lower boost levels compared to the 6 blade design, and is rated at 63 lbs./min with slightly slower spool than the 5857.
The turbo's come in both journal bearing and dual ceramic ball bearing design, the ball bearing design is probably good for 100-200 rpm quicker spool, and added reliability at higher boost levels.
As far as spool characteristics of these turbo's go, here is what diiirk@awdmotorsports had to say (built 2.0L):
| Quote: | | i have a journal 6057. made 560 at 31psi, seeing full boost at 45-4600. |
| Quote: | | This is definatly an awesome, i overlayed the 6057 graph over my fp red stup, and it spools about 2-300rpm later. |
So as far as spool goes it may go something like this (best spool first):
FP Red comparable to 5857
6057
HTA3582
HTA3586
6262
diiirk was running a journal turbo, so if the ball bearing picks up anything on spool the 6057 should spool the same as an FP Red.
The thing about these turbo's is that they don't make torque as early as the stock frame turbo's but they hold the power all the way to the top.
I'm still deciding between the 5857 and 6057 in ball bearing. I'm thinking that since the turbine side is the same (57) then they should spool just about the same, with the 6057 leaving a bit of room for improvement, while making more power at the same boost. |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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UPDATE: For the skeptics...
| Skeptic 2nr wrote: | GREEN, Green... Yadda, yadda!  ...TOO SMALL!... Only good for AutoX!
FP Red!...FP BLACK!...GT 35R!...Bigger is better!... Put Up or Shut Up!... |
Okay... Howzabout ah 9 sec 1/4-mile pass  ...with an FP GREEN
| Sanctifier wrote: | It's less about the turbo size...and ALL ABOUT THE TUNING & Chassis Prep!...and the DRIVING!  |
My $0.02¢
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luvnish
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I scrapped my Precision T3 project. Really didn't like how the big single scroll turbo came on boost.
I have an Evo, not a Honda.
I sold everything locally and made back most of my money.
This time: built 2.4L + HTA Green. |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnish wrote: | I scrapped my Precision T3 project. Really didn't like how the big single scroll turbo came on boost.
I have an Evo, not a Honda.
This time: built 2.4L + HTA Green. |
I have an Evo, not a Honda...   Hi luvnish... Long time.
IMHO a 20% increase in capacity may require more air-flow than an FP Green can optimally supply.
The HTA72 Green (54 lb./min.) does flow 31.7% more (13 lb./min.) than an OEM Evo 9 turbo (41 lb./min.)...but that may not be enough on a 2.4 stroker.
IMHO an FP Green may work best on a 2.2L stroker (10% capacity increase...and @ 25 psi+)...but for a 2.4L you may be better off with an FP Red (64 lb./min.) at a MINIMUM...or even better with an FP BLACK (68 lb./min.)
For example the 2.4L Roundsport Time Attack Evo 8 uses a GT35R (65 lb./min)
Link--> Roundsport Time Attack Evo 8.
IMHO a GT35R is too expensive. FP Red (64 lb./min.) is MUCH cheaper.
| Sanctifier wrote: | 2.4L Stroker suggestion:
If it's for a daily driver & occassional drag use, then I would go with an FP RED.
For occassional street & serious drag use my $$$$ would be on an FP BLACK!  |
BTW what 2.4L kit will you buy?
My $0.02¢
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luvnish
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have an Evo, not a Honda... Hi luvnish... Long time.
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Yep, I was so caught up on how cool an external wastegate sounds that I didn't realize that it was going to annoy the crap out of me.
Why I was thinking HTA Green is because I've seen multiple projects on evoM where 2.4L builds make 500whp with that turbo. Now I know that's probably pushing the upper limits of the turbo and you're right, the Red or Black will definitely make the power more easily at less boost.
I guess I was thinking I'd be really careful this time and not get too much turbo for the kind of driving that I'm mostly going to do! 
I have no queries of the responsiveness of an HTA red on a built 2.4L though, even with a mostly unmodified head. It's just that from reading builds on EvoM, a built 2.4L and HTA Green is a torque monster, you can't beat the neck snapping action of that IMO , and I think a stock head with S1 cams would be better suited to the smaller HTA Green. I guess it's a give/take with how far you're willing to go with a project.
From the research I've done, Slowboyracing has the most affordable 2.4L package, with a variety of different blocks for diff power levels, along with their conversion kit with custom head gasket and cam gear pulleys and timing belt to accomodate for the added deck height of the block. I came across one of the earlier FP Black builds with a slowboyracing block and their quality control seems to have come a long way. |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Hi luvnish sorry to take so long to reply but my Dad passed away ten days ago.
Link--> A MOMENT FOR THE PASSING OF A MITSU FAN
If a 2.4L stroker + FP Green interests you...why not a Magnus 2.2 (2,140 cc) + FP Green?
That's equal to a 7% increase in capacity...with a 32% increase in air-flow.
That should be more than enough turbo headroom for quite a few more years of upgrades.
I suggest the slightly smaller capacity because you can use you OEM block if its in good condition. Or even better, the "super long rod" 2,190 cc version, using a Magnus prepped 4G64 block and crank. Then you won't have to worry about align-honing the mains.
BTW this setup also revs to 9,500 rpm (2,140 cc)...or 10,500 rpm (2,190 cc)...is a perfect fit with an FP Green and is ultra-reliable...best of all worlds IMHO.
Link--> Strokin' It... Just STROKIN' IT! (4G63... lol)
My $0.02¢
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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luvnish
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Please accept my heartfelt condolences Sanct.
About the engine and turbo in question.. Isn't it true of the FP turbo's that they are not high revving turbo's? Wouldn't a long rod 9000rpm spinner be unecessary or overkill for an FP turbo? I was thinking the low revving torquey nature of the standard 4G64 would be perfectly suited to an FP Green/Red for neck snapping acceleration.
I definitely wouldn't go bigger than a Red though, I want boost to come in fast and strong. |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Sorry luvish but I haven't read that FPs can't handle high rpm.
Can you give me a link please?
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luvnish
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Here is the build:
2005 EVO8
BR 2.4 liter engine, 9.5:1 compression, billet crank, billet steel rods, forged pistons
Standard head with springs/retainers and just combustion chambers fitted to 2.4
Kelford 272 cams
MAP ported and coated exhaust manifold
FP RED
MAP ported intake manifold
BR 65 mm throttle body
BR 3" turbo back
BR Race FMIC
Stock ECU using Tephra 7
93 octane of some sort
BR manual boost controller
The car, I believe has some poor fuel in it as it is very knock prone and at the end of the dyno session today I dumped a few gallons of race gas in it to see what would happen to the knock counts, they dropped to zero. I am out of time today so Monday we will drain the fuel out and put in some fresh Shell 93 and put it back on the dyno.
The car was tuned, as you will see on the sheet, with a peak boost of 25.2 psi. The car makes 25.2 psi with the FP Red at 4000 rpm and also makes 444 ft lbs of torque at 4000 rpm. Power is excellent but with a better timing map in the car I am sure that even at this boost level the HP and Torque figures will both climb considerably.
I'm happy with the build, even at this level and even if there are no improvements from changing fuel and re-tuning.
Read more at http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyno-tuning-results/467129-buschur-racings-first-2-4-l-engine-build-results-inside.html?ktrack=kcplink |
Maybe a poor choice of words saying that it can't handle high RPM's but they do infact start to lose power at 7500rpm since the torque hits so hard and so early. 7500rpm is safe on a well built standard 2.4 block, and if you're not going to make any more power after that then why bother push it? I see those 9,000 long rod 2.1's and 2.2's to be more suited to GT40's and the like, for more of a drag racing setup.
Small high revving 2.1 or 2.2 with big ball bearing turbo like GT40/42, power from 5,000rpm-9,000rpm.
Larger capacity 2.4 with FP Red, power from 3,500rpm-7,500rpm.
At least that's my understanding, for a fun street car.
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luvnish
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:55 am Post subject: |
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No response Sanctifier?
Any thoughts on the HKS 7460 Stock frame ball bearing turbo? |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:59 am Post subject: |
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^ ^ ^ Very sorry for the delay, my friend... and before it's too late... Happy New Year!
Give me a bit and I'll try to absorb what you've posted and give a reply.
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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HKS GT7460 GTII Turbo:
This is only a limited data review but it seems that the HKS 7460 has a few shortcomings...
| SmurfZilla @ evom.net on 26-07-10 wrote: | The shop that posted the FP Green was laggy must be nuts. It that thing is laggy then you need to stay with a OEM turbo.
I'm not getting caught up in the hype. If HKS makes a part that actually produces real usuable power thats worth the money then I would def. consider it but something tells me this thing won't outspool a HTA Green/BBK Full and make less power.
I would love to eat my words though. I've always liked HKS products but over the years it just seems like there are better choices out there for less money and quality is the same (or sometimes better). |
I tend to agree with him. Link--> New HKS GTII 7460R Turbo.
| HKS wrote: | | Vehicles with mufflers or suction parts replaced for those of low resistance for improved response could suffer from surging. |
I haven't read all 14 pages yet but it seems that the HKS 7460 has some surge issues as well... so careful choice of intake & exhaust bits is critical to prevent surge.
| l2r99gst @ evom.net on 05-09-10 wrote: | | Very nice! It looks like I was about right on the money when I guessed a 47-48 lb/min compressor wheel. Very impressive results nonetheless with the response and reliability of a BB CHRA. |
If accurate, then the HKS 7460 has the same flow rate as a BBK Lite or a FP Green (Gen 1)... yet Iveytune quotes some pretty impressive output for it... 472 whp and 500 wtq @ 26.5 psi... That's good, even for an FP Red on a stock 2.0L.
Link--> HKS GT7460 GTII Original Turbine, tested at Iveytune.
Here's the HKS test results...
| HKS wrote: | | GTII 7460R produced 373.4 WHP and 355.62 ft.lbs Torque with the boost set at 1.78 Bar (25.8 PSI) on 93 octane. |
Link--> HKS introduces the GT II 7460R Turbo Upgrade for the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV-IX.
Conflicting data somewhere  ... If HKS's data is more accurate (and it's supposed to be), the HKS 7460 seems to be in the same league as the Tomei Arms / BBK Lite / FP Green (Gen 1) turbos. I'll still choose an FP 73HTA Green (Gen 2) over the HKS 7460R. IMHO FP Green gives me more overhead to accomodate future upgrades. Even if the performance is close, the Green has a proven track record... and even more important... I already have one.
Now for an opinion on the turbo needed for a street car with a stroker motor...
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:10 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Now for an opinion on the turbo needed for a street car with a stroker motor... | luvnish wrote: | | I definitely wouldn't go bigger than a Red though, I want boost to come in fast and strong... |
With that in mind, I totally agree with you...
street car with a stroker...
IMHO for a Daily Driver the ideal stroker will be a 2.3L 4G63... or even better, a 2.4L 4G64. | Sanctifier wrote: | 2.3L/2.4L Stroker suggestion:
If it's for a daily driver & occassional drag use, then I would go with an FP RED.
For occassional street & serious drag use my $$$$ would be on an FP BLACK! |
My $0.02¢
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Sanctifier
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Now for the controversial "small stroker"... for Occasional Street & AutoX / Trackday use:
| luvnish wrote: | | Small high revving 2.1 or 2.2 with big ball bearing turbo like GT40/42, power from 5,000rpm-9,000rpm... |
Yup, that would be ideal for a drag-only application but would hardly be suitable for anything else. IMHO a GT40/42 could also be hung onto a 2.4L stroker to qualify for Occasional Street use.
After looking more closely at the 'specs' I wouldn't use a small stroker for Occasional Street use. This is an "out and out" competition special. With the budget req'd, I would only use this for AutoX/Trackdays, or the odd weekend "smackdown."
"AutoX Special" with a stroker...Yup, this baby is built to do the following...
| Sanctifier wrote: | * Smooth, torque curve req'd for MAXIMUM TRACTION. Turbo surge or boost spikes are unacceptable.
* "Live" mainly in 2nd Gear, between 4,500 - 8,000 rpm and sometimes at 9,500 rpm when needed. |
With the red-line required for AutoX, hairier cams are needed, compared to more common "Daily Driver" applications.
| Quote: | * The 10% increased capacity will shift the torque curve to the left... giving peak torque @ lower rpm.
* More radical cams have the opposite effect, so the 10% increase is req'd even more to reduce "peak torque" rpm. |
AutoX turbos need quick spool for more mid-range torque. So more flow is req'd than Evo 9's 41 lb/min... or even Gen 1 Green's 47 lb/min. At 64 lb/min, FP Red is too laggy for AutoX... but FP Green (Gen 2) with 54 lb/min. flow should be a better choice.
| Sanctifier wrote: | IMHO FP Green is best on 2.2L (2,190 cc) stroker (10% more capacity... 32% more air-flow... @ 25 psi+...  @ 33 psi) |
Yup... 9,500-10,000 rpm might be outside the optimal operating range of a Gen 2 Green... but with 31.7% (13 lb./min.) more flow than an Evo 9 turbo (41 lb./min)... that should be enough for a 2.2 stroker. Remember the extra 1,500-2,000 rpm will only be used for occasional bursts between AutoX 'straights' to avoid "liming" on the rev-limiter @ 7,600 rpm until the next apex... or even worse having to "change up" to 3rd gear for 2-3 seconds... and then having to "change down" to 2nd gear again.  Not really what you should have to do, if you want to win!
Also with a different layout for each AutoX event... and the slight possibility of getting a new venue; the extra 1,500-2,000 rpm may be req'd in case longer "straights" are included in future (see "gear changes" above.)
My $0.02¢
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Last edited by Sanctifier on Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:43 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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